I'm getting very tired of people saying that El Shaddai has style but no substance. They think it's a mindless, repetitive button smasher. Those people have no idea what they're talking about.

Here's how you should be playing the game: ‪El Shaddai Demo - WEAPONS TUTORIAL (Ascension of the Metatron)‬‏ - YouTube

The combos are all rhythmic, and the player didn't even cover all of them for those specific weapons.The gale combos look really cool (they're the projectiles and the last ones shown). There's also another weapon, the veil, that wasn't featured in the demo so there are still more combos to be used.

Or you can just button mash and get through the game all the same. Unless all of those combos shown in the video actually make a difference (that is, you need them to beat different kinds of enemies and get through the game), then it IS all style and no substance. This thread and what you're linking to here does little to counter that argument. If anything, it actually supports it. It's not like, say, Skyward Sword (and even Wind Waker, to a lesser degree), where how you attack enemies actually makes a difference.

And yes, I was one looking forward to the game and ended up disliking the demo very much. Referring back to your topic title, it seems like this is going to be one of those things (whether it be games, music, film, drawing, etc) where people refer to it as "art" in order to make excuses for it being not very good and low quality.

Wait is the demo out? I have been interested to see what this game is about.

Yes, the things I've seen online look *amazing*. But I'm afraid the gameplay could be a bit repetitive. Have to try the demo, I guess... Thanks for the headsup

I don't remember similar games needing specific combos to defeat enemies like Bayonetta. Maybe some QTEs but that's about it. I pretty much ripped through that game using 6 combos. Skyward Sword seems like a special case for even dungeon action/adventure games, however, it is still structurally different to El Shaddai and rather incomparable. But strategy is still important for the boss fights in El Shaddai - they're just not like the ones in LoZ.

The title is actually a reference to Takeyasu Sawaki, the lead artist on this game as well as Okami and character designer for Devil May Cry. He wanted to make the game as simple as possible (only one attack button) for non-gamers while making it deep for core gamers but people didn't get that. They just thought it was mindless and shallow. I'm not really sure I would call it low quality or even high quality at the moment but I'll be finding out soon enough.

Well, going on what I know- which is purely from playing the demo- I sure would call it low quality. I don't know how much things can change from a demo at this stage of the game (no pun intended), but unless BIG things happen (better graphics, a gameplay system that matters, some actual decent level design, etc, better control, etc), it's going to stay that way.

But no matter....back to the original question: do the different combos make a difference to the game and gameplay? Unless they do, then they may have the style part covered, but not the substance, making this a definite case of "style without substance".

It seems just like Bayonetta: you can use whatever combos you like to get through the game, but some are better than the others and are much flashier. I'm still not seeing the big difference between El Shaddai and Bayonetta in terms of gameplay. That's where people had the problem - they said it wasn't nearly as deep as Bayonetta.

The levels seemed fine to me - kind of traditional for an action game (at least from the ones I've seen). The 2D and 3D platforming sequences look good but simple which I don't mind.

Added after 7 minutes:

Just saw this: ‪El Shaddai : Ascension of the Metatron - Fury Trailer [HD]‬‏ - YouTube

Not entirely sure what's going on... I never saw anything on this before.

Which levels seemed fine to you? The ones from the demo? Hmmm...perhaps my standards are higher, because those levels were basic, uninspired, boring, barren, etc.

Anyway, so basically it does seem like this IS a case of style over substance, since the only use of the advanced combos is to make the game more stylish without adding any substance to the game itself. Of course, it'll be good that they make the game less boring for those who want to delve into them, but if it makes no difference in the end, well...yeah. You get what I'm saying by now, I hope.

I really do think that you went into the demo with the wrong expectations. Have you ever played Bayonetta? It's a lot like El Shaddai. It's very linear, it has a nonsensical story, simple level designs, action packed, you fight multiple enemies that can be defeated with whatever combos you'd like, but instead of having simple puzzles as a break between the fighting, you have simple platforming.

I wouldn't say I did. In fact, I was extremely excited to try it out. I've been interested in the game since it was first shown.

I did only play the Bayonetta demo, but I liked it; just not enough to buy it. One thing I will say is that I used to be really big into the "Beat 'em up" genre (and am always interested in finding new games in the genre that I like), so I assure you, I'm very familiar with the conventions of the genre. Maybe I'm just getting old, because I'm finding less and less Beat em ups that I think are really good installments in the genre compared to what I've played over the years. OR, maybe, they haven't been that good, by and large.

Whatever the case, I just don't think that El Shaddai is a very good game and is actually about as generic as it gets in terms of those genre conventions. I prefer Beat em ups where you need to approach it like (for example) "ok, don't take these guys from the front, because they'll get you every time. These guys, a flying kick into a combo is their weakness. Grabbing these dudes is a big mistake, but for the other ones, that's the way to go." etc.

On the other hand, I don't find a Beat em up interesting when the approach is "press Square lots of times and you'll kill them, but if you press Square in a different timing, you'll get different combos that do the same thing. Rinse and repeat as necessary." There's no substance in that; it's just style.