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Pok?mon 3DS Games General Discuss Pok?mon X and Y as well as other 3DS Pok?mon games.

View Poll Results: Should Pokemon on the 3DS use polygon graphics?
Yes, it would make it better. 128 77.11%
No, [insert reason here] 38 22.89%
Voters: 166. You may not vote on this poll

Who wants Pokemon to move onto polygons? - Page 2
Old 06-09-2012, 04:39 PM
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They have to. When it comes time for Diamond and Pearl to be remade it would have to be in full 3D.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RurulaMoo View Post
Except that statement is actually true. Unless you think that polygons will automatically mean the mainseries will switch to an action RPG type of game, 2D -> 3D will not change anything.
It absolutely is not true, this thread proves it.

While the impact on mechanics could very well be negligible, the simple fact of suggesting alteration has led to this division between us Pokemon fans. One side believes that full 3D is the better direction the for the series, while the other believes it would be better to remain in pseudo 3D, and whichever would hypothetically win would ultimately determine the overall enjoyment we will get from the game.

If one can be better than the other in the eyes of anyone, the statement is false.
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RurulaMoo View Post
You actually think polygons > sprites in Pokemon?

The 3D pokedex's models are nice and smooth, but I'd only like it in spinoff console games like Colo/XD/Stadium/Battle Revolution.

Now when they start using a system with decent resolution, is when their sprites can look better.


Except that statement is actually true. Unless you think that polygons will automatically mean the mainseries will switch to an action RPG type of game, 2D -> 3D will not change anything.
you really think a switch from sprites to polygons would have no influence on gameplay?
Old 06-11-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tekka View Post
It absolutely is not true, this thread proves it.

While the impact on mechanics could very well be negligible, the simple fact of suggesting alteration has led to this division between us Pokemon fans. One side believes that full 3D is the better direction the for the series, while the other believes it would be better to remain in pseudo 3D, and whichever would hypothetically win would ultimately determine the overall enjoyment we will get from the game.

If one can be better than the other in the eyes of anyone, the statement is false.
The statement that polygons are not necessary an improvement and are just another art direction that will not influence gameplay is false? By saying it's false, you seem to be the one implying the polygons are better.

And I doubt that 2D vs 3D is dividng the fanbase. Pokemon has a HUGE fanbase and everyone has different opinions of everything. There's a lot of other stuff to argue about that divides the fanbase such as Gen Wars, competitive vs casual, shipping, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0ct0rscarecr0w View Post
you really think a switch from sprites to polygons would have no influence on gameplay?
Maybe slow down the game for more processing power. Pokemon mainseries will ALWAYS have a turn-based gameplay. Gamefreak says that they do the same gameplay so that if a person likes Pokemon but would prefer a different style, they'd try out the many spinoffs Pokemon has such as Rangers/Mystery Dungeon.

Look at Pokemon Battle Revolution, it's pretty, but when it comes to competitive battling, people like to go quickly. Even if the graphics were like ingame, it'd take a while going through grass and grinding because of the animation. Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness commonly had 5 minute battles that would only be like, 2-3 minutes with the speed of RSE/FRLG
Old 06-11-2012, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RurulaMoo View Post
The statement that polygons are not necessary an improvement and are just another art direction that will not influence gameplay is false? By saying it's false, you seem to be the one implying the polygons are better.

And I doubt that 2D vs 3D is dividng the fanbase. Pokemon has a HUGE fanbase and everyone has different opinions of everything. There's a lot of other stuff to argue about that divides the fanbase such as Gen Wars, competitive vs casual, shipping, etc.
I'm not just implying it would be better, I am outright saying I believe it would be better, but that's neither here nor there.
The statement was made: "polygons are not an improvement, its another direction and will not influence depth of game play."
The point is that it's neither true nor false. It is subjective opinion, but was delivered as fact, hence why I wheeled out Edgeworth to yell about it.

Your second paragraph just boggles my mind. We are a significantly reduced cross section of the fandom, but of the fandom no less. That being the case, why would the division that the suggestion has created between us not be applicable as much as any other topic? Go ask the question of any Pokemon forum and a divide will appear, I guarantee that 100%, and I will put money on it!

Added after 32 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RurulaMoo View Post
Maybe slow down the game for more processing power. Pokemon mainseries will ALWAYS have a turn-based gameplay. Gamefreak says that they do the same gameplay so that if a person likes Pokemon but would prefer a different style, they'd try out the many spinoffs Pokemon has such as Rangers/Mystery Dungeon.

Look at Pokemon Battle Revolution, it's pretty, but when it comes to competitive battling, people like to go quickly. Even if the graphics were like ingame, it'd take a while going through grass and grinding because of the animation. Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness commonly had 5 minute battles that would only be like, 2-3 minutes with the speed of RSE/FRLG
Hold it! Allotted time for animation doesn't magically become longer because it's now animated in 3D, this is a conscious design decision that the creators of the stadium-esque games made of their own volition. Should the main series games ever go full 3D, they don't have to take the same drawn-out route when a short charge or instantaneous attack would serve its purpose just as well.

Though personally I prefer the PBR direction over the main series battles, as crazy as that may seem. I like watching the Pokemon move in for the attack then deliver the strike, so I wouldn't mind so much if that happened. Thankfully, I think BW has already trimmed a lot of the fat from battles, such as not reminding us what the weather is like at the end of every turn.

Basically, while it may not appreciated by everyone; longer, prettier battles are not necessarily bad by design.
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Last edited by Tekka; 06-11-2012 at 06:38 PM.
Old 06-11-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RurulaMoo View Post
Look at Pokemon Battle Revolution, it's pretty, but when it comes to competitive battling, people like to go quickly. Even if the graphics were like ingame, it'd take a while going through grass and grinding because of the animation. Colosseum and XD: Gale of Darkness commonly had 5 minute battles that would only be like, 2-3 minutes with the speed of RSE/FRLG
Colosseum was so slow because they weren't giving it as much care as they would the portable games. Are you going to sit here and tell me that it's impossible for a 3D RPG to be fast paced?

If they made the main Pokemon series 3D they wouldn't make it like Colosseum.

Also, you really can't see how a change in gameplay would influence changes in other areas? It's pretty hard to make such a radical jump in design and keep all of the elements the same. Not everything translates well so things must be fixed, which means things have to be changed.

Something it wouldn't necessarily add but would open up the option for is voice acting and cutscenes, which would help beef up the story. Things like that don't really go well with sprites.
Old 06-11-2012, 07:38 PM
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I would like to see 3D pokemons, but I would miss the old 2D sprites, but I guess we just need to wait until they give us a word about the 6th generation.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:37 PM
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I've come to realize that I like the way things are now. Handheld gets the sprite-based RPG gameplay, while the more powerful console gets the full 3D battling simulation.

If the main series games were to move on to 3D polygons and never look back, I think that "Oh wow, this pokemon looks cool now!" feel would be lost. What I mean by that is with sprites, you get to see the pokemon you know but with an added twist in appearance. The pokemon can have more personality. With 3D polygons, you pretty much have the same look over and over again.

Pokemon Colosseum and Pokemon XD gave me that main series experience as well as 3D rendered pokemon battles, so if anything, I'd like another one of those on the WiiU with the benefits of HD. I'm sure the 3DS is capable of having a full 3D pokemon title, but I'd much rather have it on the more powerful hardware.
Old 06-11-2012, 08:43 PM
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Yes. Somehow, the 3D graphics made Pokemon XD my favorite game. Those graphics made an unforgettable experience.
Old 06-11-2012, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekka View Post
I'm not just implying it would be better, I am outright saying I believe it would be better, but that's neither here nor there.
The statement was made: "polygons are not an improvement, its another direction and will not influence depth of game play."
The point is that it's neither true nor false. It is subjective opinion, but was delivered as fact, hence why I wheeled out Edgeworth to yell about it.

Your second paragraph just boggles my mind. We are a significantly reduced cross section of the fandom, but of the fandom no less. That being the case, why would the division that the suggestion has created between us not be applicable as much as any other topic? Go ask the question of any Pokemon forum and a divide will appear, I guarantee that 100%, and I will put money on it!

Lol that's what I meant in the first place! I don't get what you're saying in the second paragraph though.
Added after 32 minutes:



Hold it! Allotted time for animation doesn't magically become longer because it's now animated in 3D, this is a conscious design decision that the creators of the stadium-esque games made of their own volition. Should the main series games ever go full 3D, they don't have to take the same drawn-out route when a short charge or instantaneous attack would serve its purpose just as well.

What would they do? Remake every model and speed up the attack animations? That could work, but I feel it'd be pointless to transition to 3D in a handheld if they didn't have the exposition that XD and Colosseum had.


Though personally I prefer the PBR direction over the main series battles, as crazy as that may seem. I like watching the Pokemon move in for the attack then deliver the strike, so I wouldn't mind so much if that happened. Thankfully, I think BW has already trimmed a lot of the fat from battles, such as not reminding us what the weather is like at the end of every turn.

Basically, while it may not appreciated by everyone; longer, prettier battles are not necessarily bad by design.

As said before, animation times can be redone so that the battles feel flowy, something like FFX. I think that level of style should be focused on entirely in a 3D spinoff like PBR/Colo/XD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0ct0rscarecr0w View Post
Colosseum was so slow because they weren't giving it as much care as they would the portable games. Are you going to sit here and tell me that it's impossible for a 3D RPG to be fast paced?

Final Fantasy X International: No Sphere Grid: Seymour Omnis - YouTube FFX
Radiant Historia boss #34 "Guardian" - YouTube Radiant Historia

While FFX feels fast, it takes up more time than Radiant Historia's per turn, which shows quick animations that still look clean. Colosseum not much care? Where did you get that claim from? Colosseum's models are borrowed off of Stadium's, so are you saying that Stadiums' slow animation means they are lazy too?

If they made the main Pokemon series 3D they wouldn't make it like Colosseum.

Also, you really can't see how a change in gameplay would influence changes in other areas? It's pretty hard to make such a radical jump in design and keep all of the elements the same. Not everything translates well so things must be fixed, which means things have to be changed.

Like what? Look at Stadium/Colo/XD/PBR. They're the same exact gameplay in battle other than different graphics. Colo/XD has walking around, but no(barely in XD's case) wild battles because random encounters would take up a lot of time for the intro animation, running away, etc. Colo/XD is pretty much the same besides being slower to exposition the 3D. Colo was my first game and I loved how amazing the pokemon looked when they come out of their pokeballs, making seeing new pokemon just surreal. However, a lot of the playtime alotted from the slow animations which I would find annoying if I played it in the style of like, Emerald/Leafgreen.

Something it wouldn't necessarily add but would open up the option for is voice acting and cutscenes, which would help beef up the story. Things like that don't really go well with sprites.

The World Ends With You Walkthrough - Part 12: Shiki - Fourth Day[3 of 3] - YouTube
Voices aren't needed for cutscenes. Games like Tales of Abyss have text for practically every cutscene, but still use speech bubbles and make translation times longer. Voice acting would also take up lots of space, time, and money, which Gamefreak loves to save.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RurulaMoo View Post
Lol that's what I meant in the first place! I don't get what you're saying in the second paragraph though.
Uh-huh...
I'm saying, we are part of the Pokemon fandom, and the divide exists because we created it. It will (and does) also exist in any open forum where the subject is brought up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RurulaMoo View Post
What would they do? Remake every model and speed up the attack animations? That could work, but I feel it'd be pointless to transition to 3D in a handheld if they didn't have the exposition that XD and Colosseum had.

As said before, animation times can be redone so that the battles feel flowy, something like FFX. I think that level of style should be focused on entirely in a 3D spinoff like PBR/Colo/XD.
Models don't need to be remade (assuming the existing Pokedex 3D Pro models would be used), but yes the way they are animated would be important.

If that is how you feel then that is fair enough, it's not my place to tell you that your feelings are wrong.

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adsfasdfasdfdf
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:29 PM
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I assure you they were very lazy with Stadium as well.

They would definitely would have put more work into Colosseum if it was not a sub series.

You're going to sit there and tell me Stadium is the same type of game? You seem to be under the impression that combat style is the only thing that matters in a game. They really aren't even all that similar aside from being able to battle Pokemon.

I never said voice acting or cutscenes were impossible in sprites just that they would be more likely to do them in 3D.

Also you seem to be under the impression that I believe the creators of Pokemon WILL make a 3DS Pokemon with poloygons. Honestly I don't think they will, I think they should.

Last edited by d0ct0rscarecr0w; 06-13-2012 at 03:16 AM.
Old 06-12-2012, 03:12 PM
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I assure you they were very lazy with Stadium as well.

They would definitely would have put more work into Colosseum if it was not a sub series.

You're going to sit there and tell me Stadium is the same type of game? You seem to be under the impression that combat style is the only thing that matters in a game. They really aren't even all that similar aside from being able to battle Pokemon.

I never said voice acting or cutscenes were impossible in sprites just that they would be more likely to do them in 3D.

Also you seem to be under the impression that I believe the creators of Pokemon WILL make a 3DS Pokemon. Honestly I don't think they will, I think they should.
Woah, back up there. Why wouldn't GameFreak make a Pokemon game for the 3DS? It's come to every single Nintendo handheld console before it - starting from the original Gameboy.

This would be stupid beyond imagination if it were to happen.
Old 06-12-2012, 03:15 PM
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I'm pretty sure he meant a full 3D Pokemon main series game on 3DS*, rather than just a main series game on the 3DS. Darn those typos.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:15 AM
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Woah, back up there. Why wouldn't GameFreak make a Pokemon game for the 3DS? It's come to every single Nintendo handheld console before it - starting from the original Gameboy.

This would be stupid beyond imagination if it were to happen.
it was a mistake I meant to say that when they make a Pokemon on the 3DS it won't be polygons.
Old 06-14-2012, 12:00 AM
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Doom gameplay did not change when people hacked the graphics to change the sprite models into polygons, additional particles and lighting. Its only because the engine too was rewritten was gameplay changed (ability to look up/down, jump or run over the top of enemies), however, in doing so, you still had the option for the gameplay, lighting/particle changes without also changing the sprites.

It doesn't matter what gameplay mechanics you throw at a game, polygons or sprites will not define gameplay mechanics. You could under all circumstances include an option to chose sprites or polygons in the same game. Just some instances would take more work than others for sprites to fit in (they are essentially paper after all)
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
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Doom gameplay did not change when people hacked the graphics to change the sprite models into polygons, additional particles and lighting. Its only because the engine too was rewritten was gameplay changed (ability to look up/down, jump or run over the top of enemies), however, in doing so, you still had the option for the gameplay, lighting/particle changes without also changing the sprites.

It doesn't matter what gameplay mechanics you throw at a game, polygons or sprites will not define gameplay mechanics. You could under all circumstances include an option to chose sprites or polygons in the same game. Just some instances would take more work than others for sprites to fit in (they are essentially paper after all)
Yeah... because there is a huge difference between 2D sprite in a 3D world and polygons. You realized you picked the worst possible example right?

Not to mention it's a bunch of hackers and they probably weren't even clever enough to think about adding in aiming and jumping mechanics that could now be added as part of the game with it now being in polygons.
Old 06-14-2012, 04:34 AM
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Yeah... because there is a huge difference between 2D sprite in a 3D world and polygons. You realized you picked the worst possible example right?

Not to mention it's a bunch of hackers and they probably weren't even clever enough to think about adding in aiming and jumping mechanics that could now be added as part of the game with it now being in polygons.
Read my post again
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:40 AM
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At this point, I'd just settle for Pokemon to move onto a 3ds. Then we can talk about polygons.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:41 AM
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I'm not even sure what you're arguing for now. This has always been about a change in graphical direction, changing game mechanics has certainly never been on the agenda.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:45 AM
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At this point, I'd just settle for Pokemon to move onto a 3ds. Then we can talk about polygons.
I agree with this ^
I would like a stadium-style game as 3dsware though, using pokedex 3d models of course.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:48 AM
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Read my post again
Either way, the fact that changing Doom from sprites in 3D to polygons in 3D didn't effect the gameplay has no barring on this argument considering Doom and Pokemon aren't similar in a single way.

I could randomly name games that had major changes going from 2D to 3D. Zelda, Metroid, Mario.

throwing out a random game or series and saying since something didn't happen to it it must never happen is horrible logic.
Old 06-14-2012, 02:29 PM
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I understand that some people would want the game in the sprite way, and some would want it as polygons. Perhaps, in the coming years, they could release the same game in two versions. One polygon and one sprited.

//never gonna happen, because of too many things but a girl can dream can't she?
Old 06-15-2012, 12:05 AM
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I understand that some people would want the game in the sprite way, and some would want it as polygons. Perhaps, in the coming years, they could release the same game in two versions. One polygon and one sprited.

//never gonna happen, because of too many things but a girl can dream can't she?
That's probably about as likely as Pokemon having more than one save file.
Old 06-15-2012, 12:36 AM
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That's probably about as likely as Pokemon having more than one save file.
Yeah.

//sigh :c

But I can dream.
Old 06-16-2012, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by d0ct0rscarecr0w View Post
Either way, the fact that changing Doom from sprites in 3D to polygons in 3D didn't effect the gameplay has no barring on this argument considering Doom and Pokemon aren't similar in a single way.

I could randomly name games that had major changes going from 2D to 3D. Zelda, Metroid, Mario.

throwing out a random game or series and saying since something didn't happen to it it must never happen is horrible logic.
And how exactly would changing pokemon to 3D change the actual game mechanics?
Old 06-17-2012, 12:36 AM
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Can't say I read any of the previous posts, but I personally don't see any reason to shift to polygons. Especially now.

The complaint that Pokemon hasn't changed over the years is really meaningless to me, but let's be honest here: Merely shifting towards polygons will only serve as a distraction from the real culprits behind that claim. I don't believe it's all that difficult for GameFreak to retain the same format they've been using since Red/Green, and if we do see a shift, I'd bet that's the only change we'll see.
Old 06-17-2012, 05:35 PM
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I say, keep the sprites for the handheld but make a fully 3D complete free roam for the Wii U.

Imagine Pokemon running behind you and Pokemon flying above you in a hyrule field style place

You could keep the same bottom screen on the DS for battles except the top screen (tv) would look really pretty. As long as it doesn't cut to a new arena type area like colosseum does.
Old 06-17-2012, 07:18 PM
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Yeah. That's the type of thing that most people wanna see. Or at least a lot. Or at least the entirety of my group of friends at college. So, you know, 10 people. We look at things like Skyrim and like Assassins Creed, and then we look at Pokemon, and then we cry quietly to ourselves.
Old 06-17-2012, 07:50 PM
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No,I dont agree. I love pixely pokemon and it would be way too different if it was polygons.
They should keep the RPGs 2d and side games 3d. I think its still got very good graphics, especially for a ds game.

Just, in my opinion it would be weird, I hope they keep it half, mostly pixels.
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:44 PM
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I dont know if they should, pokemon has always been great in the form of pixely graphics. However i do believe they can pull off the 3d look if it was somthing like tales of the abyss graphics if anyone has played that on the 3ds
Old 09-29-2012, 02:40 PM
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Yes, I would love to have better graphics for new Pok?mon titles, but, either or we've got pour pixelated graphics or badly animated polygon's walking around. Pok?dex 3D graphics would be great for a next game, but I hope that if Nintendo were to do this, they better not screw it up like in Pok?mon Rumble Blast.
Old 01-08-2013, 12:12 PM
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Well, well, well! Look how things turned out! New games in full 3D, and boy do they look amazing.

Not that I'm rubbing it in of cour- Oh who am I kidding, I'm so totally rubbing it in.

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Old 01-08-2013, 12:14 PM
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Still looks like 2.5D outside of battles. Just more in the style of the Zelda DS games. But I'll hold off on judgement.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:27 PM
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The field is full 3D. Look at the trailer again and you can see the model depth on the protagonist and the NPCs as they scale with the environment. Fantastic stuff!
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:29 PM
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Still looks like 2.5D outside of battles. Just more in the style of the Zelda DS games. But I'll hold off on judgement.
nope
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:44 PM
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It's hard to explain what I'm meaning, I suppose. Comparing it to the Zelda DS games is the best way I can. Sure, it's completely in 3D, but it feels more like putting a 2D world into 3D graphics, then it does making a 3D world in 3D graphics.

Also the graphics just look underwhelming to me altogether. The battle graphics are what I'd expect from the 3DS, but the rest of it looks like it almost could have been done on the DS.

I will not judge down the game for this and will wait to play it, but these are just my feelings at the moment.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:53 PM
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I get what you mean, despite being technically in 3D it still has that flat animation aesthetic feel, right? Which I think is good. YMMV, but this is great stuff for me.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:02 PM
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I'm conflicted. It'd be awesome to move to polygons, but then again, the 2D sprites are near and dear to my heart. Like a childhood.

All in all, polygons/3D is a good thing, and it has to be done for a pokemon title on the 3DS if you think of it. Unless you want to go all NSMB2 style and make a game that doesn't even deserve 3D. (NSMB2 being a good game but no real need for 3D)

I'd love this done but what I'm worried about is the combat. Recall Gale of Darkness. Great game, but with those 3D graphics, the attacks just didn't feel right. A Pokemon would get knocked back without even being touched, and there was just something that didn't go with the rhythm. Don't get me wrong, it was a great game, but I just think the combat aesthetics were a liiiitttle odd.

In a new pokemon game with a similar style, they should brush up the mechanics to make it look like real fighting! How cool would that be?

I wonder if they will keep the squares, as in the places your character can walk, or will they make it diagonal walking, and you can stand anywhere? Because I don't know if I'm insane, but I do remember countless times I tried to stand in the middle of the huge pokeball on pokemon center floors, but the places I could stand just wouldn't quite let me.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:36 PM
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Well you got your polygons now!
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:50 PM
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You mean its like they took pokemon black/white and replaced the sprites with polygons
= putting 3D polygon characters into a world designed for 2D sprite characters.

The video shows 4 direction movement just like the older games, the characters doing hard instant 90 degree turns unnaturally that does not suit polygon models at all, and the polygon count / repetition in the textures really puts me off. The repetition in the textures on the floor screams that its still tile based as well. To me this is an abomination of an implementation of "going 3D".

If they were going to go for polygons, and the fact the 3DS has a circle pad, it should be 360 degree movement, variable speed movement depending on how far you move the stick etc, I really am disappointed with the trailer and hope they polish this up a lot before release.

I still stand by sprites for these games. I like Gen 4 and Gen 5 graphics style more than Gen 6 by far.

I'm not posting this to troll, its because I actually liked the Pokemon series and this is like coating a good game with a vomit half assed presentation change. It frustrates me as I honestly question if I can play this or if I will just end up throwing it out the window because of how much it bugs me.

Put this next to animal crossing and it looks like (and looks like it will feel like) utter crap.

I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorless View Post
You mean its like they took pokemon black/white and replaced the sprites with polygons
= putting 3D polygon characters into a world designed for 2D sprite characters.

The video shows 4 direction movement just like the older games, the characters doing hard instant 90 degree turns unnaturally that does not suit polygon models at all, and the polygon count / repetition in the textures really puts me off. The repetition in the textures on the floor screams that its still tile based as well. To me this is an abomination of an implementation of "going 3D".

If they were going to go for polygons, and the fact the 3DS has a circle pad, it should be 360 degree movement, variable speed movement depending on how far you move the stick etc, I really am disappointed with the trailer and hope they polish this up a lot before release.

I still stand by sprites for these games. I like Gen 4 and Gen 5 graphics style more than Gen 6 by far.

I'm not posting this to troll, its because I actually liked the Pokemon series and this is like coating a good game with a vomit half assed presentation change. It frustrates me as I honestly question if I can play this or if I will just end up throwing it out the window because of how much it bugs me.

Put this next to animal crossing and it looks like (and looks like it will feel like) utter crap.

I hope I'm wrong.
I've missed this thread so much.

That initial statement is first class broken logic. The environment isn't designed for Black and White, it's designed for this game and its accompanying models. 3D models don't look good in a 3D world? 'kay.

Texture repetition has been in ALL the other Pokemon games EVER made, even the ones with 3D environments. Not so much of a huge change in presentation on that count.

Other hyperbole aside, I hope you don't decide to stick exclusively to the sprite based games, and play along with the rest of us. It really isn't the end of the world.

About the change of movement thing. It's a little weird to say instant direction changes shouldn't happen, when it does happen in almost every game ever made. It's much rarer to see a game where a character doesn't suddenly switch angles.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:43 PM
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So, it looks like new handheld Pokemon games are finally moving towards polygons. YAY. I'm sure there will always be room for sprite games, but I'm glad to see this change.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekka View Post
That initial statement is first class broken logic. The environment isn't designed for Black and White, it's designed for this game and its accompanying models. 3D models don't look good in a 3D world? 'kay.
The problem lies in the engine, not what you see in a still frame.

The engine/world design in black / white, and any game before it, feels like its been crafted with sprites in mind.
The trailer suggests they haven't changed this concept, like they've just taken the sprite models and replaced them with polygonal ones, and not improved the engine enough to suit. It doesn't feel right.

Yes texture repetition is always there, but the camera angles or textures themselves only make it way too painfully obvious, you can have texture patterns that don't stick out like a sore thumb when repeated but in some areas in that short video clip it looked jarringly bad.

For example in this:

I start counting how many tiles are used on the ground, its pulling me out of the experience, I don't want to count the tiles, but I just do because its too obvious.

The other areas shown in that gif animation are better as its not too obvious, but it looks like a cheap beta knock off. I hope they polish it up a lot, or maybe rework the game engine in the next iteration.

Quote:
About the change of movement thing. It's a little weird to say instant direction changes shouldn't happen
Its bugged me in all games that do this, the characters in this look like they accelerate from 0 to 100 instantly when they start moving, no turning animation, they just suddenly face north/east/south/west instantly when turning just like all previous games (which didn't bug me as sprites). Super Mario 64 did better than this...
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:41 PM
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Alright, I guess I really can't change your feelings, that's fine. I have to say though, I can't understand where you're coming from, from a technical point of view. It seems more like an excuse than a legitimate complaint.

I shan't drag this on any longer. Sprites or not, here's to many more years of Pok?mon training for us all.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorless View Post
You mean its like they took pokemon black/white and replaced the sprites with polygons
= putting 3D polygon characters into a world designed for 2D sprite characters.

The video shows 4 direction movement just like the older games, the characters doing hard instant 90 degree turns unnaturally that does not suit polygon models at all, and the polygon count / repetition in the textures really puts me off. The repetition in the textures on the floor screams that its still tile based as well. To me this is an abomination of an implementation of "going 3D".

If they were going to go for polygons, and the fact the 3DS has a circle pad, it should be 360 degree movement, variable speed movement depending on how far you move the stick etc, I really am disappointed with the trailer and hope they polish this up a lot before release.

I still stand by sprites for these games. I like Gen 4 and Gen 5 graphics style more than Gen 6 by far.

I'm not posting this to troll, its because I actually liked the Pokemon series and this is like coating a good game with a vomit half assed presentation change. It frustrates me as I honestly question if I can play this or if I will just end up throwing it out the window because of how much it bugs me.

Put this next to animal crossing and it looks like (and looks like it will feel like) utter crap.

I hope I'm wrong.
http://www.pokemon.com/pokemonxy/en-us

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Old 01-08-2013, 10:52 PM
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It's 2013 and they are a multimillion dollar game producer. I like a good 2d game as much as the next guy, but it's time to upgrade.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:16 PM
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Pokemon THEMSELVES can be in 3D, I want that. But for what I've seen, this is just pokemon black & white with the camera changing to show that the world is 3d (which black and white DID do, not too often but enough), only with 3D rendered characters and objects (trees, rocks) as the buildings have been 3d rendered since diamond and pearl. a 3D game has a 3D moving camera (that you can often control at will) From what I see that is not the case. I have high expectations Nintendo. Don't screw this up.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:17 PM
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Pokemon will never move on to polygons anyways. You guys are all dreaming.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redturtle806 View Post
It's 2013 and they are a multimillion dollar game producer. I like a good 2d game as much as the next guy, but it's time to upgrade.
Shifting from sprites to polygons is not an upgrade, its just a different medium (easier one I admit)

Thats like saying the live action rendition of <anime show> is an "upgrade"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch33bDragonite View Post
Pok?mon X and Pok?mon Y

"Game footage not final."
Already covered

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorless View Post
hope they polish this up a lot before release.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:19 AM
 
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Time for me to join in on this.
1) Its not as easy as it looks to change from one thing to another.
2) A 3DS isnt an XBOX or PS3 or WII that is played on an HD TV at 1080p Graphics.
3) If you think its easy. Please make me a 3D Pokemon game cause Heck I would be happy.
4) Its a screen shot of Image... its not like its the actual image.
Everyone Adjusts to change differently. I say they can do it because look at the New Mystery Dungeon. That looks great. You have to remember that this is still in the works and they have plenty of time to polish it up. A New iphone (thats a joke) can be made every six months then so can this game. The new style is just a taste of whats to come. Yes everyone enjoyed the old days but if we still live in it that means we would enjoy Little big planet on PS1. Halo on nothing. Sponge bob in black and white with no sound.
Old 01-09-2013, 08:16 AM
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Hey, looks like your wish came true today.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:45 AM
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As a guy who wanted it to be in full 3D, it bugs me when people say it is. That's not what full 3D is. This is what a jump from tile-based top-down 2D games to full 3D looks like:



Pokemon X and Y just introduced a dynamic camera and 3D models. It looks good, but it's not the epic scope people thought about when they meant full 3D.
Old 01-09-2013, 10:10 AM
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That's nonsense. "Full 3D" is exactly what it says it is, all major assets in 3D. So why redefine terms to fit a context that nobody else uses them for? Pokemon main series games are never going to be Zelda, and they're never going to handle like Zelda. Why anyone would expect this, I don't even know.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekka View Post
That's nonsense. "Full 3D" is exactly what it says it is, all major assets in 3D.
Your definition also applies to Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate, yet that's 2.5D.
Old 01-09-2013, 10:41 AM
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Then perhaps you need reevaluate the terms you apply to games. Traditionally, 2.5D has applied to the use of both flat panel sprites and 3D architecture within a single world, fixed camera perspective has nothing at all to do with the technical construction of the game world itself.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:37 PM
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Well Pokemon X and Y for the 3DS are releasing this year in October. That is polygons enough for you I hope.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:00 AM
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polygons for 3DS of GTFO
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekka View Post
That's nonsense. "Full 3D" is exactly what it says it is, all major assets in 3D. So why redefine terms to fit a context that nobody else uses them for? Pokemon main series games are never going to be Zelda, and they're never going to handle like Zelda.
You are technically right, Pokemon X&Y are in full 3D, but Yanikun has a point. Most people wanted a jump in the way we interpret the world of Pokemon, not only in the way we see it, as it was usual in the N64 days with so many games making the jump to polygons, leaving the grid and side scroll worlds in favor of the freedom of analog 3D movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekka View Post
Why anyone would expect this, I don't even know.
Partially answered above. I grew up to see the fantastic jump from sprite based gaming to polygon based and it left a scratch in my brain. I'm sure many of my generation feel the same way and wish to see the world of their once graphically challenged favorite games come to life in a way as massive as the Zelda, Mario and Metroid (thou way later) did.

To add. 2.5 D is a really bad term, the correct way to say it is 3D sidescroller. there is not a 2.5 D and thus the term has been used to mean many different things. Still not nearly as bad as people claiming cell shaded is not 3D.
Old 01-16-2013, 08:58 AM
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I really don't understand people here. If you don't like anything about the game, you don't have to buy it. It's not like you own the series or anything...
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornh View Post
You are technically right, Pokemon X&Y are in full 3D, but Yanikun has a point. Most people wanted a jump in the way we interpret the world of Pokemon, not only in the way we see it, as it was usual in the N64 days with so many games making the jump to polygons, leaving the grid and side scroll worlds in favor of the freedom of analog 3D movement.



Partially answered above. I grew up to see the fantastic jump from sprite based gaming to polygon based and it left a scratch in my brain. I'm sure many of my generation feel the same way and wish to see the world of their once graphically challenged favorite games come to life in a way as massive as the Zelda, Mario and Metroid (thou way later) did.
You're a much a better example of how that should have been put across. Other than your use of "most people wanted", I'm glad to see someone put their thoughts across without generating misinformation to justify their personal feelings.

For what it's worth, I actually agree with you somewhat. A little more freedom of movement would be welcome to smooth the game out a bit, but it's such a small thing it really means very little to me.

However, (it would seem that) other than also being able to freely adjust the camera, there's not a lot else we're not already being given. (Could we even adjust the camera at will in OoT? I can't remember.)

The only elements missing at that time, that I can think of, would be Zelda specific gameplay elements such as firing the bow or combat in the field, something that Zelda and Pokemon have always done differently regardless of if they've been in 3D or not. I don't think we ever saw Link dissolve into a swirly mess and reappear for a turn based battle in any of his 2D adventures, haha.

That said, Final Fantasy 10 would perhaps be a better example of what you want the series to evolve into technically?

At the end of the day it comes down to little more than nitpicking.

It is what it is, full 3D and Pok?mon together at long last. Happy days.

Added after 19 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornh View Post
To add. 2.5 D is a really bad term, the correct way to say it is 3D sidescroller. there is not a 2.5 D and thus the term has been used to mean many different things. Still not nearly as bad as people claiming cell shaded is not 3D.
D'oh! Just looked it up and it does have multiple definitions. (Wow, a lot of them too!) That's what I get for not doing my research. I do apologize. You win this round! :P
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