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Iwata Asks: Paper Mario: Sticker Star mini-rant
Old 12-02-2012, 10:56 PM
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Default Iwata Asks: Paper Mario: Sticker Star mini-rant

Okay, so I've been playing Paper Mario: Sticker Star. It's fun and addicting, but I sort of felt it's a begrudging kind of like, since it removed a lot of elements I liked about the series... Then I found this out, and now, I don't know if I can ever feel the same way about this game...

I read an Iwata Asks Interview with him about the game, and the thing that pissed me off the most was this one line:

Quote:
After E3, Miyamoto-san played the prototype [of Sticker Star] and said it was just a port of the GC version.
...How... is that a bad thing? Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door was the best game in the series? Why change it? Hell, the fact that I KNEW that it was originally like that game makes me hate this game even more, JUST BECAUSE Miyamoto felt the need to stick his fingers into it and mess things up, just because he wasn't satisfied! Oh, and this one just riles me up to:

Quote:
Aside from wanting us to change the atmosphere a lot, there were two main things that Miyamoto-san said from the start of the project?"It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?" and "As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world.
Oh, yeah, of course, who cares about the story in a ****ING RPG?!?!?!?! If you want to innovate with new gameplay, why aren't you doing something about the New Super Mario Bros. series? That's a game series that NEEDS more innovative gameplay! Why are you messing around with series that does NOT need this kind of involvement?!?!

Like, I respect this guy, he did a lot to shape the video game industry as it is today, but he isn't the be-all-end-all thing to video games, not to mention, he DOESN'T strike me as the king of guy who "gets" the appeal of Paper Mario. Yeah, Paper Mario: Sticker Star is fun, but I still liked the older games better, and hearing that it USED to be like that just makes me hate this game and Shigeru Miyamoto so much right now...
Old 12-03-2012, 06:07 AM
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These lines again....

IMO, Miyamoto needs to leave when it comes to Paper Mario games. I mean, he is like the god of video games, but he really messed up this Paper Mario. If it played exactly like the GC version, then I would have beat the game already! I am still on chapter 3 of SS. Miyamoto, go focus on your new IP! Leave Paper Mario alone.
Old 12-03-2012, 06:35 AM
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When is Miyamoto leaving again? Like seriously that E3 demo sounds great.


..I..need this in my life. Why wasn't this made D:>
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Last edited by BMO; 12-03-2012 at 06:38 AM.
Old 12-03-2012, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BMO View Post

When is Miyamoto leaving again? Like seriously that E3 demo sounds great.


..I..need this in my life. Why wasn't this made D:>
I am actually watching Freaks & Geeks right now.

As for Mario RPG 64, it was later turned in Paper Mario. I am happy that happened.
Old 12-03-2012, 06:46 AM
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Miyamoto be trollin'
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:49 AM
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I've never played the previous games, but I agree with him. The little bit of story that there is in Sticker Star is exactly what's needed for the gameplay to not be interrupted, and since it's a handheld game, I don't want to be looking at my handheld waiting for walls of text and cut scenes to be over. I think that was a good idea.

As for the GameCube part, he didn't say it was as good as the GameCube installment, he said it's "just a port" of it. Sticker Star, from what I've read, changed things up and, again, that is for the best.

Maybe you should go back and play the old games, just sayin'.
Old 12-03-2012, 06:53 AM
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Ohhh boy....

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Old 12-03-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanikun View Post
I've never played the previous games, but I agree with him. The little bit of story that there is in Sticker Star is exactly what's needed for the gameplay to not be interrupted, and since it's a handheld game, I don't want to be looking at my handheld waiting for walls of text and cut scenes to be over. I think that was a good idea.
I would have agreed with you on this, but Superstar Saga had plenty of storyline and ended up being a better game for it, while still working perfectly as a handheld game. If that series could pull it off, why can't Paper Mario? Not to mention that with the "Write the game using only the Super Mario World cast" comment makes it seem like Miyamoto isn't necessarily doing it for gameplay reasons, but more personal ones. There was no reason for it and it actually ended up hurting the game because none of the NPC's are memorable.

Maybe the game actually did have too much text story-focus for a handheld Mario game and needed to remove some of it, but forcing the polar opposite on the developers while inflating the importance of your own characters makes Miyamoto look bad here.



Also, I actually didn't mind the experimental sticker gameplay, but I sincerely hope they're not saying "We should never return to the TTYD format." As great of a game Paper Mario 1 and 2 were, they haven't perfected the traditional formula by any means. There is tons of room to build off what was already there instead of recreating the entire franchise from scratch, and considering they were the only games of their kind, to never go back to it is extremely upsetting and a bad move.



Lastly, "you should just go back and play the old games," is stupid.
Paper Mario isn't like the New Super Mario bros series, or Legend of Zelda. There are only two games minus the platformer spinoff, and the last one came out over 8 years ago (two console generations). There's plenty of room for a third proper installment without getting into rehash territory.
"Innovation and being different" for the sake of it is idiotic. They removed key features that can even be seen in the prototype like the partner system but didn't replace them with anything meaningful. Why should taking away from the gameplay be celebrated?

Last edited by Bon; 12-03-2012 at 08:34 AM.
Old 12-03-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzy View Post
They removed key features that can even be seen in the prototype like the partner system but didn't replace them with anything meaningful. Why should taking away from the gameplay be celebrated?
Streamlining. Whenever you make a product like a video game or a movie or what-have-you, you'll have a lot of great stuff that will end up on the cutting room floor. Miyamoto clearly thought the prototype wasn't on a level to be anything more than "just a port of the Game Cube version," and when you're trying to make a different game (which they were) you're gonna keep stuff and lose stuff. It doesn't mean they're saying what they cut wasn't great, but they obviously thought it didn't make sense or didn't find a natural place in the context of Sticker Star. Not even having played the previous games, I'm glad it's different. Some may miss elements found in previous games, others may like that the devs actually looked at it and only used what made the most sense for this one particular game.
I only see good in this Iwata Asks. The guy didn't want the game to feel like what they had done before and acted accordingly. That's commendable in my book.
Old 12-03-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanikun View Post
Streamlining. Whenever you make a product like a video game or a movie or what-have-you, you'll have a lot of great stuff that will end up on the cutting room floor. Miyamoto clearly thought the prototype wasn't on a level to be anything more than "just a port of the Game Cube version," and when you're trying to make a different game (which they were) you're gonna keep stuff and lose stuff. It doesn't mean they're saying what they cut wasn't great, but they obviously thought it didn't make sense or didn't find a natural place in the context of Sticker Star. Not even having played the previous games, I'm glad it's different. Some may miss elements found in previous games, others may like that the devs actually looked at it and only used what made the most sense for this one particular game.
I only see good in this Iwata Asks. The guy didn't want the game to feel like what they had done before and acted accordingly. That's commendable in my book.
Well, honestly, it is really hard to be able to take into context with never having played the previous games, especially the first two considering they're both rated near the top games for the two systems they're on alone. The parter ner system, side stories, npc's, and quirks are what made the original two so great and they basically took the style of those, then watered them down to bare bones and put in a few different gameplay gimmicks that aren't all that charming. It's alright to go a different route for handheld of course, but trying to go overboard just for the sake of that really is underwheming in just seeing what could have been.
Old 12-03-2012, 02:28 PM
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If you want something like Thousand-Year Door, why not just dig out your Wii or GameCube and play... Thousand-Year Door? Honestly, people... Miyamoto just wanted something new. When something new comes around, it's never for everyone. I, however, love Sticker Star very much, and I hope we get a sequel one day. It isn't the best one in the series, but it isn't bad. The best one is still the original.
Old 12-03-2012, 02:32 PM
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If you want something like Thousand-Year Door, why not just dig out your Wii or GameCube and play... Thousand-Year Door? Honestly, people... Miyamoto just wanted something new.
Just going to throw in my two cents.

I'm fine with originality and can't wait to play SS, but why is it now that Miyamoto wants to be original? Like seriously, all NSMB games so far(dunno about U) have been the same thing over and over again. Why is it the series that hasn't gotten stale yet the one he wants to change up? Especially after 8 years of fans demanding a traditional sequel?
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrToby View Post
If you want something like Thousand-Year Door, why not just dig out your Wii or GameCube and play... Thousand-Year Door? Honestly, people... Miyamoto just wanted something new. When something new comes around, it's never for everyone. I, however, love Sticker Star very much, and I hope we get a sequel one day. It isn't the best one in the series, but it isn't bad. The best one is still the original.
Because even for the greatest of games, you can only play them so much, and TTYD came out now almost 9 years ago. They tried something different already in Super Paper Mario, so why couldn't they have then just given what every fan clearly wanted? And if he wants something new, then he should also change up 2d Mario...and even Zelda to an extent.
Old 12-04-2012, 05:02 AM
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I see. But if you are tired of the formula, why would you want a sequel that uses the exact same one?
Old 12-04-2012, 05:06 AM
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I see. But if you are tired of the formula, why would you want a sequel that uses the exact same one?
It isn't the formula that gets old, it is the same story/powers/partners/etc. that get old. If a new game was released with the same battle system but changed a little bit, more badges added, more partners/different partners (Chain-chomp, shy-guy, etc.), a new story, and a new command or so, it would be amazing. Also, leveling up.
Old 12-04-2012, 06:35 AM
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I see. But if you are tired of the formula, why would you want a sequel that uses the exact same one?
The problem is that Miyamoto doesn't want to improve the formula any longer after TTYD. If Intelligent Systems grabbed the TTYD formula and improved it, it would be a pretty good Paper Mario game, and it could even rival TTYD as the best in the series. Sticker Star was similar to the original formula, and while it worked for this game, it wasn't good enough of a replacement.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:43 AM
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IMO, Paper Mario should stick to consoles. Start developing Paper Mario U.

Last edited by Minato Namikaze; 12-05-2012 at 04:21 AM. Reason: "sticker" wasn't meant as a pun xD
Old 12-05-2012, 04:14 AM
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In response to those saying I should just play the original Thousand-Year Door, what I meant was, that game was awesome, and a new game like that game would be great! Hell, if you look at the beta screenshots, you can tell it was going in that direction:

List of Paper Mario: Sticker Star beta elements - Super Mario Wiki, the Mario encyclopedia

I don't like this new sticker-focused, light on story style. Yeah, the Paper Mario stories weren't all that interesting on the surface, but it was in the details where they shined. The characters you met, the towns you visited, the dialogue between uniquely designed characters...

You know, that's another thing with this game, I think someone said this before, all the characters all look so generic. Just basic Mario enemies, no costumes, no original designs, just regular old Mario enemies. Hell, even in Super Paper Mario, where everyone looked like a bunch of lines and block smushed together, it still LOOKED unique and original, this just feels like... nothing.

So yeah, I'm with Minato Namikaze, here's hoping Paper Mario for the Wii U turns out better.
Old 12-05-2012, 08:01 AM
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Wow, it's really disappointing that Miyamoto doesn't understand the essence of Paper Mario. I'm scared I'll never see a Pianta in another Paper Mario game.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:14 PM
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People are acting like Sticker Star is the formula that all future Paper Mario games will use. The fact is, the Sticker-system (like the Flipping thing in SPM) is probably a one-shot thing. In fact, I'm pretty sure the next one will be different. It's just a feeling with no facts basing it on. It feels like it would get old after a while.

Last edited by MisterKorman; 12-11-2012 at 07:20 PM.
Old 12-12-2012, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrToby View Post
People are acting like Sticker Star is the formula that all future Paper Mario games will use. The fact is, the Sticker-system (like the Flipping thing in SPM) is probably a one-shot thing. In fact, I'm pretty sure the next one will be different. It's just a feeling with no facts basing it on. It feels like it would get old after a while.
You just stated exactly what the problem people have with the series direction, both of the last two games had major gimmicks, and it appears as if they want to go that route rather than keep it simplified going foward.
Old 12-12-2012, 01:49 AM
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The problem I have with Sticker Star is that there really is ZERO incentive to actually battle enemies. Since you do not get experience, only coins (which you use to buy more stickers) which are really not that useful since you get so many stickers just by hitting blocks and peeling them off the environment...

Im already at the point where I try to avoid any battling. Nintendo made it feel superfluous and tedious.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:30 AM
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I'm not acting like this is the future of the series. In fact, I seriously doubt this really is the future of the series and I really, REALLY hope it isn't. I'm just saying I don't like the choices they made, and that at one point, the game was similar to a game I would have loved.
Old 12-12-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrToby View Post
People are acting like Sticker Star is the formula that all future Paper Mario games will use. The fact is, the Sticker-system (like the Flipping thing in SPM) is probably a one-shot thing. In fact, I'm pretty sure the next one will be different. It's just a feeling with no facts basing it on. It feels like it would get old after a while.
And that's the freaking problem. Paper Mario is becoming a series of "hey, let's try this new gimmick in the next game and make the whole series feel inconsistent!" and that's what really worrying people. The Sticker System is not a bad system and I know we won't be seeing it again (or maybe we will on the Wii U, considering that you could use the Gamepad as the Sticker album) but why can't they simply go back to the original formula AND IMPROVE IT? That's what people want, just that. It won't kill them to do it just once and then go to the next game where Mario has to use different-shaped toilet papers to defeat a Water version of Bowser :P
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