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XY Tournament OU Banlist Discussion
Old 12-25-2013, 02:48 AM
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Default XY Tournament OU Banlist Discussion

I feel we as a forum should determine what we personally feel is too broken for XY OU post-Pokebank.

I will suggest banning the following
  • Mewtwo
  • Lugia
  • Ho-Oh
  • Blaziken
  • Kyogre
  • Groudon
  • Rayquaza
  • Deoxys
  • Deoxys-A
  • Dialga
  • Palkia
  • Giratina
  • Darkrai
  • Shaymin-S
  • Arceus
  • Reshiram
  • Zekrom
  • Xerneas
  • Yveltal
  • Soul Dew
  • Gengarite
  • Kangaskhanite
I believe most will agree with the above being banned. I feel it is important to discuss other Pokemon and items though. Mainly freed Ubers such as Genesect, Thunderus, and the Deoxys forms

Last edited by Lumy; 12-29-2013 at 09:50 AM.
Old 12-25-2013, 03:15 AM
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I haven't played much Pokebank OU but so far it seems like everything from BW Ubers will stay in XY Ubers.

Also I agree with Kangaskhanite being banned from forum tournaments.
Old 12-25-2013, 03:20 AM
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I will second the banning of Kangaskhanite.
From personally use, it has few to no counters (No one likes ferrothorn) with the equivalent of 210 base attack.

Also, for consideration, Deoxys-D. I don't feel this should be banned as it is easily shut down and is not over centralizing.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:22 AM
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I have heard talk of lucarionite has been discussed. But i haven't really played around with it myself.

Though i dont as dangerous as the above megastones.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:57 AM
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I suggest, why not Smogon banlist?
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salamence View Post
I suggest, why not Smogon banlist?
The ones I suggested are pretty much an up to date Smogon banlist for XY. I don't believe anyone will disagree with those. The bigger question is who else should be banned if any?
Old 12-25-2013, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Pimmis View Post
The ones I suggested are pretty much an up to date Smogon banlist for XY. I don't believe anyone will disagree with those. The bigger question is who else should be banned if any?
Well you should consider Talonflame (Sooner or later Smogon wiil) and Lucarionite
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:52 AM
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Talonflame isn't broken even now. Lucarionite should probably be banned though.
Old 12-25-2013, 04:58 AM
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Talonflame isnt that hard to counter. Just anything that can eat it's attacks can easily beat it down with a rock move. Plus with stealth rock, losing half its hp then having to attack something, it will be pretty close to death after that. Rotom F or W is a pretty decent counter as they both resist fire and flying attacks and can use water or electric moves to knock it out, or even trick a choice scarf on to it will cripple it.

I wanna suggest Wobuffet as a ban. Not because its particularly broken or anything. Its just that if a battle comes down to Wobuffet vs Wobuffet, then its just who has the most PP and struggle battle. I dont like the idea of that happening.
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Last edited by IvyProfen; 12-25-2013 at 05:01 AM.
Old 12-25-2013, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IvyProfen View Post
Talonflame isnt that hard to counter. Just anything that can eat it's attacks can easily beat it down with a rock move. Plus with stealth rock, losing half its hp then having to attack something, it will be pretty close to death after that. Rotom F or W is a pretty decent counter as they both resist fire and flying attacks and can use water or electric moves to knock it out, or even trick a choice scarf on to it will cripple it.

I wanna suggest Wobuffet as a ban. Not because its particularly broken or anything. Its just that if a battle comes down to Wobuffet vs Wobuffet, then its just who has the most PP and struggle battle. I dont like the idea of that happening.
Well you keep telling it isn't broken, but its forcing you to take a Rotom in your team, and to apply stealth rock
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Old 12-25-2013, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scizor View Post
Talonflame isn't broken even now. Lucarionite should probably be banned though.
Lucarionite shouldn't be banned.
While Lucario may be powerful with it, it still retains mediocre defenses, a base 112 speed that's outsped by some significant threats, and a weakness to 2 (ground and fighting) common types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IvyProfen View Post
I wanna suggest Wobuffet as a ban. Not because its particularly broken or anything. Its just that if a battle comes down to Wobuffet vs Wobuffet, then its just who has the most PP and struggle battle. I dont like the idea of that happening.
Haha, no offense, but that's way too situational. I'm doubting most people will use Wobuffet, and it isn't too much of a hassle to defeat (taunt, strong dark/ghost/etc moves). Also you forgot Imposter ditto! :P
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Last edited by Nedcone; 12-25-2013 at 06:00 AM.
Old 12-25-2013, 06:00 AM
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Aw man, Mega Kanghaskan will really be missed
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedcone View Post
Also, for consideration, Deoxys-D. I don't feel this should be banned as it is easily shut down and is not over centralizing.
Just quoting this because I personally feel all forms of Deoxys should be discussed.

I am fine with banning both Deoxys and Deoxys-A. Deoxys-S is best known as the one of the best leads ever thanks to its great movepool and unrivaled speed. Actually, because of its wide movepool, I'd also move to ban Deoxys-S.

Deoxys-D is the only form I'm remotely fine with keeping in this tournament, and as such I currently do not move to ban it.
Old 12-25-2013, 07:50 AM
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Mega garchomp- is he banned?
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfnerd66 View Post
Mega garchomp- is he banned?
Nope. Don't think it's even considered for banning.

My list on the first page describes everything that is banned give or take
Old 12-25-2013, 08:00 AM
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*looks at the list*

I pretty much agree with this list here.

I will say though I think Articuno should be on that list imo.
Old 12-25-2013, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chao View Post
*looks at the list*

I pretty much agree with this list here.

I will say though I think Articuno should be on that list imo.
The reason articuno isn't on that list is because *shudders* Stealth Rocks
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:01 AM
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Ban everything except dunsparce
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:15 PM
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Even without Stealth Rock Articuno isn't nearly good enough to be Uber.

Also the reason Mega Lucario is so dangerous is because it can take 2-3 Pokemon before you've even found out if it's special, physical, or mixed. This would also apply to normal Lucario but that speed boost in Mega form makes it even harder to counter.

Last edited by Scizor; 12-25-2013 at 01:36 PM.
Old 12-25-2013, 03:38 PM
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Still, Lucario can easily be checked. So I don't agree it's banning.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimmis View Post
Just quoting this because I personally feel all forms of Deoxys should be discussed.

I am fine with banning both Deoxys and Deoxys-A. Deoxys-S is best known as the one of the best leads ever thanks to its great movepool and unrivaled speed. Actually, because of its wide movepool, I'd also move to ban Deoxys-S.

Deoxys-D is the only form I'm remotely fine with keeping in this tournament, and as such I currently do not move to ban it.
Yup, I'll second this.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:58 PM
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Still, Lucario can easily be checked. So I don't agree it's banning.
After a stat boost (Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, it's a 50/50 chance) pretty much nothing checks or counters it. All you have to do is send Lucario out on setup fodder and you're ready to sweep. Guess wrong on which set the Lucario is running and you're screwed.
Old 12-25-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
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After a stat boost (Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, it's a 50/50 chance) pretty much nothing checks or counters it. All you have to do is send Lucario out on setup fodder and you're ready to sweep. Guess wrong on which set the Lucario is running and you're screwed.
Yeah, u need to guess it set, meaning it doesn't counter every set. Again, it's situational, unlike kangaskanite and gengarite, which only one set can counter 95% of it's check. Again, doesn't warrant a ban to me. U can also taunt it to prevent it to set up. That's a similar situation with azumarill as well, bro.

The fact that it has **** defenses as well makes it ez to check also.
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Last edited by gamefan5; 12-25-2013 at 04:29 PM.
Old 12-25-2013, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scizor View Post
After a stat boost (Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, it's a 50/50 chance) pretty much nothing checks or counters it. All you have to do is send Lucario out on setup fodder and you're ready to sweep. Guess wrong on which set the Lucario is running and you're screwed.
I'm a Mega Lucario's user, and I must admit it is hella difficult to set a Sword Dance/ Nasty Plot with it because of its *** defenses, also if it doesnt carry Extreme Speed Talonflame easily check it, and Mega Venasaur can take a Close Combat after a Sword Dance, same as Aegislash can take a Crunch, I just thought if you'll keep banning, that'll be the next most powerful mega evolution
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Old 12-25-2013, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, u need to guess it set, meaning it doesn't counter every set. Again, it's situational, unlike kangaskanite and gengarite, which only one set can counter 95% of it's check. Again, doesn't warrant a ban to me. U can also taunt it to prevent it to set up. That's a similar situation with azumarill as well, bro.

The fact that it has **** defenses as well makes it ez to check also.
You wouldn't send out Lucario on something with Taunt unless you intended to kill it immediately. Lucario has powerful STAB priority moves that after a SD/NP can OHKO almost everything that outspeeds it.

Added after 2 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by salamence View Post
I'm a Mega Lucario's user, and I must admit it is hella difficult to set a Sword Dance/ Nasty Plot with it because of its *** defenses, also if it doesnt carry Extreme Speed Talonflame easily check it, and Mega Venasaur can take a Close Combat after a Sword Dance, same as Aegislash can take a Crunch, I just thought if you'll keep banning, that'll be the next most powerful mega evolution
After Stealth Rock damage Adamant Mega Lucario has about a 50% chance of killing 0 HP/0 Def Talonflame with Bullet Punch. Special Lucario with Vacuum Wave is probably a better chance but I haven't calculated it. After Flare Blitz or Brave Bird the recoil will definitely kill Talonflame if it survived the Bullet Punch, so it's not exactly a counter.

Aegislash is destroyed by Dark Pulse after Nasty Plot.

Last edited by Scizor; 12-25-2013 at 06:34 PM.
Old 12-25-2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scizor View Post
You wouldn't send out Lucario on something with Taunt unless you intended to kill it immediately. Lucario has powerful STAB priority moves that after a SD/NP can OHKO almost everything that outspeeds it.

Added after 2 minutes:



After Stealth Rock damage Adamant Mega Lucario has about a 50% chance of killing 0 HP/0 Def Talonflame with Bullet Punch. Special Lucario with Vacuum Wave is probably a better chance but I haven't calculated it. After Flare Blitz or Brave Bird the recoil will definitely kill Talonflame if it survived the Bullet Punch, so it's not exactly a counter.

Aegislash is destroyed by Dark Pulse after Nasty Plot.
Made some reasearch, u didn't convince me, but someone else did convince me that it should be banned. XD
http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/show...ect-Discussion
Insane soul's post.

EDIT: I read a bit more though, and the opposite team make good points as well. I think I'll remain neutral on this one.
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Last edited by gamefan5; 12-25-2013 at 06:53 PM.
Old 12-26-2013, 07:12 AM
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I am remaining neutral on the case of Mega Lucario, only slightly leaning towards banning it. If I see more support towards banning it, then it shall be done.

More importantly, the following still need to be looked into



Old 12-26-2013, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimmis View Post
I am remaining neutral on the case of Mega Lucario, only slightly leaning towards banning it. If I see more support towards banning it, then it shall be done.

More importantly, the following still need to be looked into



Thundurus is nothing since its precious drizzle (teamup) doesn't remain forever
And Genesect is the best Choice Scarf user according Smogon
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:57 AM
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Thundurus is nothing since its precious drizzle (teamup) doesn't remain forever
I can't agree with that. Priority Thunder Wave is still a major threat, and unlike Klefki it can reliably damage opposition without relying on hax shenanigans. Though I suppose Thunderus' coverage is hindered by fact that it relies on Hidden Power, which is all RNG (unless generated). Its Nasty Plot set is still very potent without rain.
Old 12-26-2013, 02:42 PM
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Pok?bank has now been delayed.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:13 PM
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Thundurus should be banned. Genesect I'm not so sure about, but leaning towards a ban.
Old 12-28-2013, 11:48 PM
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Any other thoughts on Thunderus I or Genesect?

I'd also like to see opinions on Manaphy, whose Tail Glow set is still very powerful.
Old 12-29-2013, 12:30 AM
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Pimmis soul dew is unavailable in X Y so you can take it off the list.

Also I would suggest banning Rotom-W... I mean the meta is over-centralized on him.
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
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Also I would suggest banning Rotom-W... I mean the meta is over-centralized on him.
Rotom-W is just popular, not over centralizing.
Old 12-29-2013, 03:29 AM
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Right. Rotom-W also isn't difficult to deal with most of the time
Old 12-29-2013, 08:35 AM
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I don't know why but why ban Mew two? Just wanna know...
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:52 AM
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I don't know why but why ban Mew two? Just wanna know...
Mostly because Mewtwo can easily steamroll most Pokemon without effort lol. I let Mewtwo on teams, and everyone will be using it which hampers team creativity and a lot of other things that'd make battling fun and competitive. I can go into more detail if necessary, but that's the general gist of things
Old 12-29-2013, 09:13 AM
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Ahahaha is that so? :3 Anyways... Still can't believe that's true though :3 But voting for a pokemon in the ban list I should say that Noivern is since no one is crazy enough to put a flying type on their team without expecting any counters (Stealth Rocks for da win). I've also noticed that most banned poke's are Legendaries so shouldn't we just banned them all for the sake of it? Ahahaha just kiddin' of course :3
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:45 AM
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Not every legendary is banned though - Just the dangerous ones.

A good example of a very harmless Pokemon is Regigigas, which has a base stat total (BST) of over 600. With base stats like those, it's very ban-worthy, yet Smogon determines it to be Never-Used or NU. Main reasons are because of a bad section of useable moves and its crippling ability Slow Start. For five whole moves, this thing can't do anything and pretty much serves as set up material for opposing Pokemon.

Less obvious legendary Pokemon such as Mew were determined as Underused or UU simply because they lack potency. Mew (and the other event pixies) possess a stat spread of 100 across all stats, and while that may sound impressive, the stat distribution has actually weakened over the years. Basically, its better to have focused stat distributions rather than balanced ones.

In any case, you're free to contribute any thoughts you might have, though try to provide good reasons on why you support or don't support a certain action. If you are new to competitive battling, I'd suggest reading various articles on Smogon about the game. They're fairly easy reads.
Old 12-29-2013, 02:34 PM
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Honestly I would just keep the same banlist from BW. It's less complicated than making our own list and I doubt anyone will complain.
Old 12-29-2013, 02:39 PM
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Honestly I would just keep the same banlist from BW. It's less complicated than making our own list and I doubt anyone will complain.
I second this as long as its updated with such pokemon as Mega kanga and gengar.
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:17 PM
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B/W banlist means removing Excadrill, Landorus, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, and Deoxys-D - All Pokemon I personally feel are completely fair game.
Old 12-30-2013, 12:58 AM
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B/W banlist means removing Excadrill, Landorus, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, and Deoxys-D - All Pokemon I personally feel are completely fair game.
That's why I said updated a bit :P
Which I suppose is the whole point of this thread!
Landorus and Deoxys-D were ubers?
Anyways, I personally don't feel that any of those Pokemon should be banned in our tournament for various (Lack of sand support, lack of rain support, lowered special attacks, weak to taunt etc etc) reasons.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
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B/W banlist means removing Excadrill, Landorus, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, and Deoxys-D - All Pokemon I personally feel are completely fair game.
Allow those and I think it's a good list. People can argue for Genesect, Thundurus, etc. if they want. So basically it's the BW banlist with Gengarite and Kangaskhanite but without the Pokemon you mentioned.

I've never actually seen Manaphy, Landorus, or Torandus-T in Pokebank OU, lol.
Old 12-30-2013, 07:41 AM
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Landorus and Deoxys-D were ubers?
Anyways, I personally don't feel that any of those Pokemon should be banned in our tournament for various (Lack of sand support, lack of rain support, lowered special attacks, weak to taunt etc etc) reasons.
Yeah, Landorus-I was banned from B/W OU in July. It actually wasn't banned because of sand support because despite its ability, users of Landorus-I never really needed sand to make use of its stats. Actually, the main set that got Landorus-I banned in B/W was a Life Orb Rock Polish set which used its Dream World ability, Sheer Force.

In fact it got its own article on The Smog

Deoxys-D was banned even earlier than Landorus-I by a majority vote (which was pretty close to a 50/50). I suppose it was just too annoying for OU at the time, and pretty much guaranteed hazards. We'll see how it works here if we decide to keep it.